By Mohamed Saad Khiralla (blog) –
For quite some time now, and with increasing intensity in recent months, a systematic campaign has been underway to present a “new look” for Egypt’s entrenched military-authoritarian regime, the third of its kind since the coup of 1952. This new guise carries a disturbingly “ISIS-like” character, as the military authorities have unleashed their official religious institution, Al-Azhar, in cooperation with the Ministry of Endowments, to imbue society with a radical Islamist hue. The consequences of this trajectory could be catastrophic for the entire Middle East should events erupt for any reason.
This trend has become even more alarming following the recent rapprochement between Egypt and Iran, which has reached the brink of openly normalizing relations that had previously remained “under the table.” It is as if we are progressing toward a brutal, anti-modern dual guardianship of the military and the religious faqih in Egypt.
Against this backdrop, I feel a moral and conscientious duty to shed light on a plight that remains largely taboo to discuss, a plight that affects nearly 18 million Egyptian Copts, with around 15 million inside Egypt and between two to three million in the diaspora. This ordeal has endured for centuries, with one notable exception: the golden liberal era preceding the 1952 military coup, when Egypt was a constitutional monarchy established in 1923 by King Fuad I with British backing. That thirty-year period is widely regarded as Egypt’s golden age of pluralism and cosmopolitanism, a time when the nation was a melting pot of Jews, Copts, Muslims, naturalized citizens, and foreign residents living together in harmony.
However, with the coup of July 23, 1952, the new regime launched an ethnic cleansing campaign against Egyptian Jews, forcibly displacing no fewer than 80,000 creative, highly skilled individuals who had played a central role in building Egypt’s golden-age economy and excelled in every field and at every level. This systematic purge reduced Egypt’s Jewish population to fewer than ten individuals today.
Having paid no price for this criminal act, the authoritarian regime was emboldened to pursue similar though less overt methods against the Copts, Egypt’s original inhabitants prior to the Islamic conquest, whose numbers, as noted, run into the millions.
In the following lines, I present a conversation with Egyptian human rights activist and political analyst Magdi Khalil, who has lived in the United States since the mid-1990s. Khalil has dedicated his life to defending the Coptic cause in Egypt through the Coptic Solidarity organization, which he co-founded and in which he remains one of the most active members, working alongside an outstanding team that operates with professionalism, dedication, and objectivity.
1. Do you believe you have a Coptic cause? How would you describe it?
Since the Arab conquest of Egypt in 642 AD, the Copts have had a cause that began with the dhimma system a system of violent oppression and humiliation of non-Muslims until it was abolished in 1856 by Said Pasha.
Today, according to the modern state and international law, the Copts have a clear cause that rests on four pillars:
The first pillar: They are a religious minority according to the United Nations and all international definitions of the concept of minority.
The second pillar: They are persecuted according to all international definitions of persecution.
The third pillar: They are classified by the United Nations among indigenous peoples.
The fourth pillar: The Coptic cause includes the right of the Copts to appeal to international law and international charters, and to engage in peaceful struggle inside and outside Egypt to stop their persecution and obtain their rights to protection, equality, religious freedom, and fair participation in the governance system and political and administrative positions.
In summary, the Copts are a persecuted religious minority and an indigenous people who have been marginalized.
2. There seems to be a sort of unofficial ban on revealing the true number of Copts. Why does this happen, and what is the actual number from your perspective?
Since the Central Agency for Public Mobilization and Statistics (CAPMAS) in Egypt began, it has severely underestimated the number of Copts, announcing in its figures that they constitute between 4-6% of Egypt’s population, so that the Copts would not demand political and administrative quotas proportional to their real numbers.
When this was exposed and the church announced its own figures, CAPMAS completely stopped mentioning any number of Copts, despite proudly claiming to count everything in Egypt.
Generally, there are some estimated indicators of their real number.
Egyptian Minister Sayed Morai announced during a visit to Australia in 1977 that the Coptic population was 6 million out of 35 million, which was Egypt’s population at the time, representing 16.5% of Egypt’s population.
When President Carter met with Pope Shenouda in 1977 at the White House, he told him, “I know you are a religious leader of 7 million individuals,” i.e., 20% of Egypt’s population.
The current Pope, Tawadros, announced that the number of Egypt’s Copts is 15 million inside the country and between 2 to 3 million abroad, totaling 18 million people, representing 16.5% of Egypt’s population the same percentage Minister Sayed Morai announced in 1977… and the Copts accept this figure.
3. Since when have the Copts in Egypt been suffering? What has happened since Sisi came to power?
The suffering of the Copts began with the Arab conquest of Egypt in 642 AD. There are extensive volumes documenting the persecution of the Copts. It suffices to mention the manuscript of John of Nikiu about the atrocities during this conquest, and the manuscript of Sawiris ibn al-Muqaffa about the crimes of Islamic rule against the Copts during various caliphates, a manuscript exceeding ten thousand pages. There is a vast number of manuscripts and books discussing this persecution.
There were brief periods of peace in history, the most notable being during the British occupation from 1882 to 1952. Islamization returned with the military rule and escalated since the Sadat era, known as the “Islamic Awakening.” We date the start of continuous persecution against the Copts from 1972 until now.
Regarding Sisi, he represents a continuation of mixing militarization with Islamization. We had hoped that after a popular revolution against the Muslim Brotherhood’s rule, he would support secular governance. Unfortunately, Islamization increased under his rule to levels surpassing all military rulers since 1952.
4. In closed Coptic circles, where you have been present, what is said about the Egyptian constitution?
The Copts believe that Article 2 of the constitution, which concerns Sharia law, undermines equality and all rights, establishes an Islamic religious state, and deepens religious extremism.
The late lawyer and former Speaker of the Egyptian Parliament, Fathi Sorour, described Article 2 as supra-constitutional, meaning it governs and references all other articles of the Egyptian constitution. He stated that the constants of Egypt are the republican system and Article 2 related to Sharia.
A distinguished study by Egyptian researcher Adel Guindy compared constitutions worldwide, including all Islamic states, and found that the Egyptian constitution most strongly entrenches a religious state.
5. How does the state view the Coptic Church? What impact does this have on the treatment of the Copts by state agencies?
When Amr ibn al-As entered Egypt, he realized that controlling the Copts depended on controlling their clergy, which he exactly did, subordinating the Church entirely to the Islamic state. This situation continues to this day.
The Arabs granted the Church the right to choose its religious leadership and the right to govern Copts by their own personal status laws on marriage and divorce, and this arrangement remains today. However, even these simple rights have not been fully implemented. The state interfered to hinder the issuance of a personal status law for the Copts and security agencies intervened in selecting the Patriarch. Unfortunately, this situation persists to this day.
Thus, after 1400 years, the Islamic state in Egypt deals with the Copts and their Church in the same manner!
When they say the Coptic Church is a national church, they mean it is entirely subordinate to the Islamic state; this is their concept of nationalism!
If the Church demands the rights of its people, it is labeled sectarian, accused of disloyalty, and severely persecuted. This happened to Pope Shenouda at the beginning of his tenure, leading to his removal from office in 1981. Mubarak kept him confined in the monastery until 1985, and he was released under harsh conditions.
Since Sadat’s era, special departments have been established to monitor the Copts:
The Coptic Department in the State Security Investigations (currently the National Security Agency)
The Diaspora Coptic Department in General Intelligence
Finally, under Sisi, the Coptic Department in Military Intelligence
All these departments’ primary goal is to monitor the Copts and their churches inside and outside Egypt, infiltrate them, and recruit some against their cause.
6. Do you think Egyptian media perpetuates stereotypes about the Copts? How does this affect public awareness and societal attitudes?
Egyptian media is largely the media of an authoritarian Islamic state. It is controlled, directly or indirectly, by state agencies and follows their vision regarding the Copts. Moreover, the media personnel themselves come from an upbringing steeped in racist, supremacist attitudes against the Copts that question their loyalty to the Islamic state.
Generally, the Islamic state’s ideology is suspicion towards the loyalty of non-Muslims.
The Islamic state in Egypt controls the public sphere and public order. Media is a vital tool for controlling the public sphere.
The danger is a vicious cycle: the media fuels racism, extremism, and negative stereotyping of Copts in society, and society in turn produces extremist media professionals. Generation after generation, Egypt sinks deeper into extremism, racism, backwardness, and an increasing gap with the world, even with Gulf countries striving to move from extremism to modernity.
“Hope remains tied to the immortal voice of truth, illuminating the path of justice and peace for all Egyptians. We will continue the dialogue in the second article of this trilogy.”
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Mohamed Saad Khairallah is a political analyst specializing in Middle Eastern affairs and Islamic movements. He is also an opinion writer and a member of the Swedish PEN.. His articles have also been published here in Sweden, where he resides, in newspapers such as Aftonbladet, Sydsvenskan, the liberal magazine Tidningen Nu, and others. He also has a book about Egypt that was published in August 2024. In addition, he has participated in dozens of interviews with various channels across the Middle East to analyze political developments.
Edited from: https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/mohamed-saad-khiralla-interviews-magdi-khalil-on-egypts-copts-part-1-3/
